This is not just another rant about tech recruiters but businesses in general. This just so happens to be an example from a tech recruiter but other businesses are likewise as bad. Why is it that this is happening? I really don't recall businesses being so bad before. Is it the ADHD or ADD brought on by technology and the endless Facebook and Twitter usage that makes people working at such businesses so bad?
So today I was at DICE looking for jobs. I came across a job for a sysadmin in Dallas! Now why Dallas when my search agent clearly filters for jobs in San Diego. And it's not like I didn't come across it before as I had reported it before. Of course, DICE seems to pretty much ignore any reported jobs and this job got "renewed" in that deceitful manner I spoke of before. Looking over the listing I could see nothing that would cause this to be found by a San Diegan search agent.
So this time I emailed DICE directly an asked about this. But I also saw that if I hovered over the Contact button I got a phone number. So I decided to call Robert Half, the recruiter with this erroneously posted job. I figured I'm helping them out by informing that their job posting probably isn't too effective if it's showing up as a San Diego job.
The number was to Fort Worth and after explaining the situation the receptionist there said that she'd transfer me to the San Diegan office of Robert Half and the the call promptly got dropped! Ok people make mistakes so I call back. This time, of course, I get a different receptionist and have to explain the whole situation yet again. I do and she says that she'll transfer me over to the San Diegan office again. I mentioned that last time the connection just dropped so the previous person must have just mishandled it. I was hoping this time that this receptionist would be more accurate. But no, wham, just dropped again... Ugh.
So I call up, yet again, in an attempt to help this guys out. Why am I exerting all this effort I think to myself. So again I have to explain everything and when she was about to transfer me, yet again, to the San Diegan office I stopped her and said, "Perhaps you can give me the phone number and I'll dial it myself". She gave me the phone number and I called. I got a bot saying to me what the office hours were and hung up. It was then that I noticed that it was before 7:30 Am when they open up. I would have thought they'd have an answering machine active for non-business hours but no. So I decided to call after 7:30 Am.
Now I call and get "If you know your parties extension you can dial it now, otherwise dial 0 for an operator". Well I don't know any extensions so I dial zero. It goes through catortions and eventually starts ringing the line again. After several rings I get - "If you know your parties extension you can dial it now, otherwise dial 0 for an operator"! I did this a few times to just verify there's no way to get through!
As I said - you have to be contactable to be in business! Why are business falling down so badly on this simple task? It boggles the mind!
Wednesday, February 28, 2018
Monday, February 26, 2018
There's gotta be a better way
I know I hark about recruiters over and over but this is the soup in which I sit.
It's really amazing how incompetent tech recruiters are. But job sites are complicit in the incompetence that tech recruiters have. Face it, job sites such as DICE, Monster, Indeed are made for clients, not candidates. Candidates do not pay to use those sites. Recruiters do (I think) as well as end clients. However there is a number of practices which just seem counterintuitive towards the process of finding the right candidate for the correct client.
I've already complains mightily about recruiters incompetence when it comes to screen the candidates before approaching them and even after approaching them. But what about the job sites (as well as how recruiters seem to use and/or abuse such sites)?
The most efficient way to find candidates that might possibly be a match is to advertise to them via job sites by describing what positions you have available to them. Job sites have search engines that allow candidates to search for and apply to such jobs and allow you to save searches or have search agents that can optionally email you new jobs. I never subscribe to such things. Clutter in my inbox does not make me more efficient.
Yet when I go to job sites and search for a job using a saved search or search agent I see pretty much the same old jobs day in and day out. Why? In the name of efficiency, shouldn't I just see the new jobs that match the search agent?
Many sites will show you jobs that you've applied for before. Now tell me, of what use is it to me to see the same job that I applied for over and over again? I have no need to see jobs I've applied for or at the very least there should be a method for easily saying "do not show me jobs that I've already applied for". I see absolutely no value it having them listed as jobs for me. I mean what can I do or say other than "Oh yeah, I already applied for that". They just waste space. Similarly I'd like a filter to filter out jobs requiring security clearances.
But recruiters have in their minds that people are looking for new listings whenever they come to at job site and we are. And I guess they don't want to disappoint showing us a blank page saying "Well there are no new listings today - it's the same old shit you saw yesterday". Hey recruiters! While I don't like knowing there's nothing new, I would much rather be told that then the fake false hope that there is something new by disguising old postings as new and also listing jobs I've already applied for.
Here's what some recruiters do - they change the posting date to today. This allows them to float up an old job that you might not see unless you page down enough to the top of the list assuming your sorting by date. However, think about this... If I saw the job yesterday or last week and wasn't intrigued enough to apply for it, do you really believe that pretending it's new will suddenly make me say "Gee, I gotta apply to this!". No, it won't.
And to add insult to injury, I've tracked this on DICE a little bit and have come to find out that when recruiters "re-post" a job to make it appear new they get a new DICE ID. Now I don't know if they get charged for that - I can only hope. But what I do know is that the same job re-appears as if it was recently posted (DICE uses "Date Posted" but that's a lie. They should call it "Date the recruiter last changed it to to appear fresh" or something like that) but it has a new DICE ID, often sequential to it's previous DICE ID.
OK boys and girls, now think a little bit. If I see a new job with a DICE ID of say Devops-1 and I apply, then 1 week later the recruiter re-posts the position to make it appear fresh getting a new DICE ID of Devops-2, what happens if I then apply again? I would think nothing more than the last time I applied. It would just be extra work for me, extra work for the recruiter and/or the end client. IOW how does this help anybody?!?
It's really amazing how incompetent tech recruiters are. But job sites are complicit in the incompetence that tech recruiters have. Face it, job sites such as DICE, Monster, Indeed are made for clients, not candidates. Candidates do not pay to use those sites. Recruiters do (I think) as well as end clients. However there is a number of practices which just seem counterintuitive towards the process of finding the right candidate for the correct client.
I've already complains mightily about recruiters incompetence when it comes to screen the candidates before approaching them and even after approaching them. But what about the job sites (as well as how recruiters seem to use and/or abuse such sites)?
The most efficient way to find candidates that might possibly be a match is to advertise to them via job sites by describing what positions you have available to them. Job sites have search engines that allow candidates to search for and apply to such jobs and allow you to save searches or have search agents that can optionally email you new jobs. I never subscribe to such things. Clutter in my inbox does not make me more efficient.
Yet when I go to job sites and search for a job using a saved search or search agent I see pretty much the same old jobs day in and day out. Why? In the name of efficiency, shouldn't I just see the new jobs that match the search agent?
Many sites will show you jobs that you've applied for before. Now tell me, of what use is it to me to see the same job that I applied for over and over again? I have no need to see jobs I've applied for or at the very least there should be a method for easily saying "do not show me jobs that I've already applied for". I see absolutely no value it having them listed as jobs for me. I mean what can I do or say other than "Oh yeah, I already applied for that". They just waste space. Similarly I'd like a filter to filter out jobs requiring security clearances.
But recruiters have in their minds that people are looking for new listings whenever they come to at job site and we are. And I guess they don't want to disappoint showing us a blank page saying "Well there are no new listings today - it's the same old shit you saw yesterday". Hey recruiters! While I don't like knowing there's nothing new, I would much rather be told that then the fake false hope that there is something new by disguising old postings as new and also listing jobs I've already applied for.
Here's what some recruiters do - they change the posting date to today. This allows them to float up an old job that you might not see unless you page down enough to the top of the list assuming your sorting by date. However, think about this... If I saw the job yesterday or last week and wasn't intrigued enough to apply for it, do you really believe that pretending it's new will suddenly make me say "Gee, I gotta apply to this!". No, it won't.
And to add insult to injury, I've tracked this on DICE a little bit and have come to find out that when recruiters "re-post" a job to make it appear new they get a new DICE ID. Now I don't know if they get charged for that - I can only hope. But what I do know is that the same job re-appears as if it was recently posted (DICE uses "Date Posted" but that's a lie. They should call it "Date the recruiter last changed it to to appear fresh" or something like that) but it has a new DICE ID, often sequential to it's previous DICE ID.
OK boys and girls, now think a little bit. If I see a new job with a DICE ID of say Devops-1 and I apply, then 1 week later the recruiter re-posts the position to make it appear fresh getting a new DICE ID of Devops-2, what happens if I then apply again? I would think nothing more than the last time I applied. It would just be extra work for me, extra work for the recruiter and/or the end client. IOW how does this help anybody?!?
LinkedIn Recruiters
I also get approached by recruiters on LinkedIn too. Often they give little details but sometimes they give full details. Here's yet another conversation with a recruiter:
Josh Brett
Josh Brett
Thursday, February 22, 2018
The Non-Salesmans... (AKA PC Salespersons...)
A recent trend I'm seeing are these recruiters approaching me on LinkedIn with quick introduction, almost zero information, and insisting on calling much like a salesman trying to close a deal or one that thinks their tremendous sales skills and persuasive personality will reel me in. I don't understand - why not show your cards, be informative and transparent up front? Remember you never get a second chance to make a first impression.
Now I had been approached but a number of recruiters in this fashion and usually they're just trying to fill their rolodex (does anybody use those anymore?) and really are a waste of my time. So I decided to "play" with Sierra, especially if you just read her first sentence and stop. Go ahead, do it now.
Feels like one of those spam emails from some Eastern European chick right? So I respond:
Best,
Sierra Well she took the high road so naturally I responded...
Here's a recent example. I was approached by one Sierra who leads with:
Hi Andrew, I would love to build a proactive relationship so that we can partner now or down the road. I consistently work on DevOps roles in San Diego and would love to be a strategic career partner long-term to help you identify opportunities that align with your goals.
Best, SierraAs you can see, I have no idea what sort of DevOps roles she may or may not have, whether I'm qualified for any of them, etc. There's zero detail, save that they are supposedly DevOps roles and in San Diego.
Now I had been approached but a number of recruiters in this fashion and usually they're just trying to fill their rolodex (does anybody use those anymore?) and really are a waste of my time. So I decided to "play" with Sierra, especially if you just read her first sentence and stop. Go ahead, do it now.
Feels like one of those spam emails from some Eastern European chick right? So I respond:
I'm up for a movie... ;-)She didn't respond so I then wrote:
I guess you're not up for a movie eh? How about dinner then? I mean you said "I would love to build a proactive relationship so that we can partner now or down the road"Eventually she responded with:
Hi Andrew, it sounds like you interpreted my message the wrong way. I take my career seriously and use LinkedIn as a tool to establish professional relationships with people and act as a career partner.
I'm not interested in anything but a professional partnership. Thank you for the response and if you are open to new positions I would be happy to have a conversation.
Sierra Well she took the high road so naturally I responded...
I was just screwing with you precisely because of all the PC crap I see nowadays. Hell #metoo2!
Plus have you ever noticed how all of you female recruiters look like their side gig is real estate? Surely you know what I mean...
Anyways, I find this preemptive "hey let's start a business relationship" out of the blue type contact to be disingenuous to me. It's like a sales job with no product.
Look if you have something for me then present your "product" be it a service or a good. Tell me what it is and why I need to get it from you. Convince me... sell me... Otherwise all I see is somebody wanting to connect business wise, but has nothing to offer, no value proposition.
Just like if I were interested in a business relationship with you I would have sought you out and only contacted you if I thought I had something to offer you that you'd be interested in and I'd present you a full detailed listing of my skills over the years, no, decades - I call it a resume! You would have gotten a casual message like "Hey I'm a Devops guy in San Diego - got anything?". You'd be fully informed.Guess I'm grumpy today...
Monday, February 12, 2018
Kaiser Permanente Problem
Now I'm having fun with Kaiser Permanente...
First off, the phone number on the card doesn't work! Or rather it's listed as 1-800-464-4000/TTY 1-800-7777-1370. Of course the first number seems like it's a TTY type of device where you type instead of talking you type. The second number doesn't work. The first number is the number to call.
Tip: Say "representative" to speak to a person. The menu system won't tell you that.
Ok secondly, I called up to try to get various numbers like RxBin, RxPCN, etc. for my pharmacy. Come to find out that I cannot use an outside pharmacy or rather I can but they won't pay for any of the prescriptions! I was not told of this during sign up.
Now in the normal free market, otherwise known as all other businesses, one votes with their dollars. So if you don't like the way a business is performing you go to their competitors. You shop around and you pick a business that suits your needs. Or you complain about the practices and even some will set up their own businesses seeing the opportunity to please others that feel like you do and making good money as well as provide a better service. In the field this is known as competition and it is the driving force that helps the market to control prices and make businesses better and better at servicing their customers.
To add insult to injury, I am now stuck with Kaiser at least until Open Enrollment. Another asinine concept that limits people to only being able to make changes to their plans once a year. How fucking stupid! This does nothing for me. Of course there are so called "qualifying events" such as new job, new baby, marriage/divorce but "hey I don't like that I can't use my own pharmacy" is not on the list of qualifying events. So I'm fucking stuck.
This is not free market, it's not competition and it's stupid!
First off, the phone number on the card doesn't work! Or rather it's listed as 1-800-464-4000/TTY 1-800-7777-1370. Of course the first number seems like it's a TTY type of device where you type instead of talking you type. The second number doesn't work. The first number is the number to call.
Tip: Say "representative" to speak to a person. The menu system won't tell you that.
Ok secondly, I called up to try to get various numbers like RxBin, RxPCN, etc. for my pharmacy. Come to find out that I cannot use an outside pharmacy or rather I can but they won't pay for any of the prescriptions! I was not told of this during sign up.
Now in the normal free market, otherwise known as all other businesses, one votes with their dollars. So if you don't like the way a business is performing you go to their competitors. You shop around and you pick a business that suits your needs. Or you complain about the practices and even some will set up their own businesses seeing the opportunity to please others that feel like you do and making good money as well as provide a better service. In the field this is known as competition and it is the driving force that helps the market to control prices and make businesses better and better at servicing their customers.
To add insult to injury, I am now stuck with Kaiser at least until Open Enrollment. Another asinine concept that limits people to only being able to make changes to their plans once a year. How fucking stupid! This does nothing for me. Of course there are so called "qualifying events" such as new job, new baby, marriage/divorce but "hey I don't like that I can't use my own pharmacy" is not on the list of qualifying events. So I'm fucking stuck.
This is not free market, it's not competition and it's stupid!
Man Mohan Tiwari or Scott Davidson?
One tactic Indian recruiters employ is to send you and initial contact email about some "urgent" position that they have desperately been trying to get a hold of me for. Excuse me but perhaps you could bother to actually leave a voicemail or an email. Phones nowadays register when people try to call and I know my voicemail works. As does my email. But you didn't try any of that because this is the first I've heard of you. Trying to instill fake urgency is a turn off!
Another tactic Indian recruiters employ is to take on a common American name in the attempt to appear acclimated to American culture. Another tactic that seems rampant lately is for them to approach you and giving you pretty much no information about the position at hand, attempt to get you to commit to some rate or to have a conversation with them. Excuse me but I don't know what I'm buying here so I'm not offering a price nor do I want to "chit-chat" with you if what you have is not suitable for me. It's a waste of my time and your time.
Another tactic Indian recruiters employ is to take on a common American name in the attempt to appear acclimated to American culture. Another tactic that seems rampant lately is for them to approach you and giving you pretty much no information about the position at hand, attempt to get you to commit to some rate or to have a conversation with them. Excuse me but I don't know what I'm buying here so I'm not offering a price nor do I want to "chit-chat" with you if what you have is not suitable for me. It's a waste of my time and your time.
Here's a transcript of a recent "chat" on LinkedIn with Man Mohan Twari who solicited me directly.
Man Mohan Tiwari sent the following messages at 12:02 PM
hi Andrew
i have urgent devops engineer position for you in san diego caAndrew DeFaria sent the following message at 12:03 PM
So why haven't you emailed it to Andrew@DeFaria.com yet?!?I'm just being playful here basically saying, yes I'm interested and send that right along...
Man Mohan Tiwari sent the following message at 12:03 PM
I didAndrew DeFaria sent the following message at 12:04 PM
When?Man Mohan Tiwari sent the following message at 12:04 PM
just now it is contract role of 12+ monthsOK so now I know it's a contract. Great!
Andrew DeFaria sent the following message at 12:04 PM
I have one from a Scott Davidson.I checked my email and I have an email from one Scott Davidson... Hmmm...
Man Mohan Tiwari sent the following message at 12:05 PM
it is sameAndrew DeFaria sent the following message at 12:05 PM
But your name is not Scott.Man Mohan Tiwari sent the following message at 12:05 PM
i dont have detailed JD they are looking for devops engineerHmmm... So let's think for a little be. He has no JD or Job Description. How can he possibly know if I have the skills to satisfy the minimum requirements? He can't. So he doesn't even know if he will be wasting his time or my time.
Andrew DeFaria sent the following message at 12:05 PM
I'm confused.Man Mohan Tiwari sent the following message at 12:05 PM
yes my name is scottHmmm... Normal people use their real names. LinkedIn doesn't generally allow nicknames so is this guy Man Mohan Tiwari or Scott?
Andrew DeFaria sent the following messages at 12:06 PM
I have that you are Man Mohan Tiwari. You're not pretending to be an American by using a common American name are you? That would be bad.
It's a crappy way to make a first impression, don't you agree?Here I'm calling him out. Obviously there's a discrepancy in names and I believe him to be using an American name just to appear not Indian.
Man Mohan Tiwari sent the following message at 12:07 PM
Sorry for that but i am using that sudo name for long timeNow granted, some cultures like Chinese take on a similar sounding first name because Americans may have a difficult time if the person's name is say Xu or perhaps Ng. But they never pick an American lastname. Yet Man's so called "sudo name" is not just Scott, but Scott Davidson!
Andrew DeFaria sent the following message at 12:07 PM
You use sudo(1m)? :-)Now I'm playing with him again. I've already determined he's not sincere or that his is using deceptive tactics. Nerd humor ahead alert - Man say "sudo name" meaning "synonym" but not being an English speaker he heard it wrong or spelled it wrong. But I play off of that referring to sudo, a Linux command to become root, hence the (1m) reference meaning section 1 in the admin section.
Man Mohan Tiwari sent the following message at 12:08 PM
Sorry for that but that is realityNote to self: I know it's what you really did, but I also know what you really did was a bad attempt to appear American. You failed.
Andrew DeFaria sent the following messages at 12:08 PM
No, it's deception.
Reality is Man Mohan Tiwari.Man Mohan Tiwari sent the following message at 12:09 PM
yes i agree with youAs we shall soon see, he doesn't agree with me at all.
Andrew DeFaria sent the following messages at 12:09 PM
Is Davidson also a sudo?
And yet you still deceive. Anyway, what is the rate for this assignment?Here I point out that he seems to have also taken a "sudo name" for his last name of Davidson. As I said before, I have never seen this.
Man Mohan Tiwari sent the following message at 12:10 PM
i dont deceive AndrewGuess he didn't really agree with me after all.
Andrew DeFaria sent the following message at 12:12 PM
When you use something other than your real name you are being deceptive. I notice you didn't choose a sudo of say Ravi Goswami.A quick aside to see what Scott Davidson's email actually said:
Hello,Hope you are doing well.My client is looking for devops engineer for contract position in san diego, CAJob Description :Our client is looking for devops engineer in san diego, CA kindly share me your resume with your hourly rate expectation.If you are interested please email me your updated resume ASAP mentioning below details:Full Name:Contact #:Current Location/State:Willing to relocate:Availability:Work Permit:Skype ID:Hourly rate Expectation:Email:Looking forward to your response…
Warm regards,
So to review, the above email insincerely mentions "Hope you are doing well" <- they don't give a shit. OK so what info, hard facts are here... It's a devops engineer position (which can be literally anything), it's a contract (that's good) and it's in san diego (no we can use proper capitalization in business correspondence!!! But San Diego's good). Demands: wants me to share my resume (one wonders how he got my email) and quote a rate. That's like quoting somebody how much a new roof would cause the owner without seeing the roof first!Scott DavidsonIDC Technologies, Inc
Work (Direct number): 408-668-9304
Mailto: scott@idctechnologies.com
_____________________________________Empowering Technologies ServicesRemote Services | IT Services | BPO |IT Consulting | Staffing Solutions |_____________________________________
Then he has the balls to ask me for useless information like Full Name - You already know that! Email address?!? In an email?!?, etc...
So I fire back at him:
But let me get this straight. You reach out to me through LinkedIn then email me a message that has absolutely no real description of what this assignment entails, want me to work filling out useless information and have the nerve to ask me to give you a rate?!? How the hell could I do that! I know nothing about this position.
Try again. And be more professional next time.Man Mohan Tiwari sent the following message at 12:14 PM
Andrew i dint mean that.Andrew DeFaria sent the following message at 12:20 PM
What you meant is not important. How your message is received *IS* important. I just told you how I received it. You should be concerned and change your stance.
So if you could 1) send me a real JD so I know what I'm dealing with and 2) include a rate (could be a range) of what the client is looking to spend then I will answer your question - but not before!
Meantime this is going on my blog! You'll be famous... You're welcome.
Man Mohan Tiwari sent the following message at 12:25 PM
Andrew DeFaria sent the following message at 5:20 PMAndrew what was truth i told you and i dont want to be famous by this so if possible exclude my name that would be great:
Thanks
Gonna be hard to exclude your name when I'm not even sure of that exactly your name is...
Anyway, don't worry. You won't be that famous. It's a small blog...
Teaching recruiters one at a time
I can't believe how much I can teach tech recruiter's to be better at their jobs! I mean what the fuck do I know - I'm just a sysadmin/perl hacker and yet to me these things are just common sense. Are all you recruiters really that stupid?!? They must pay you like shit...
Here's another recent exchange.
On 02/12/2018 11:34 AM, Judd Plumley wrote:
Sounds great! thank you, sir!
From: Andrew DeFaria <Andrew@DeFaria.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:23 AM
To: Judd Plumley <judd.plumley@OARIP.com>
Subject: Re: Seeking Senior SRE/DevOps Engineers, Disney
On 02/12/2018 11:06 AM, Judd Plumley wrote:
I ask you, who in their right mind, having such highly desirable skills, would fail to list them on their resume?!?Yes, I don't see the skills required. I am checking with you to see if you have them but did not put on your resume. I have seen it happen before.
Quite frankly I don't believe you. I've had way too many experiences with recruiters who fail to lift a single finger and do any qualification what so ever before approaching people. I have no idea why recruiters are so bad at their jobs but I have mountains of evidence that they are.
Let me suggest this to you... If you really are being truthful above and thought that I might be somebody with the required skills but after doing my due diligence and checking the resume I would have started off my initial message to the candidate with something like this:
Hi Andrew,Respecting your time, I’ll get right to the point. I am helping Disney source tech talent for long-term contracts (18+ months) with their Studio Tech team at the Glendale, CA offices. They are looking for engineers with specific skills in systems management (Chef, Terraform, Ansible); multiple scripting (Python, Go, Perl, Ruby or Swift) and emerging containerization (Docker, Rancher, Kubernetes, OpenShift.).
In looking over your resume I did not notice anything explicitly stated in your resume other than Perl (this would have signaled to me that you actually read and evaluated my resume because Chef, Terraform, Ansible, Python, Go, Ruby, Swift, Docker, Rancher, Kubernets, OpenShift do not appear on my resume at all and a simple and quick text search of the document would confirm that!). On the off chance that you have worked with these technologies but have failed in include it in your resume, I'd love to speak to you about this position.
If not and should you happen to know someone who might, please respond back for the full job description.
Meantime, thanks for not respecting my time and instead wasting it!
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